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Boeing loses to Airbus on big Delta order


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Originally published November 19, 2014 at 3:16 PM | Page modified November 19, 2014 at 5:54 PM

Boeing loses to Airbus on big Delta order

Airbus has beaten out Boeing on an order from Delta for 50 widebody jets. The European planemaker will sell Delta 25 Airbus A350-900s and 25 Airbus A330-900neos.

By Dominic Gates

Seattle Times aerospace reporter

In a showdown in Atlanta, Airbus’s sales team has beaten Boeing’s to win a big order from Delta Air Lines for 50 widebody jets worth more than $6 billion at market prices.

Boeing was trying to sell Delta a mix of 777-300ERs and the 787-9, the larger version of the Dreamliner, to replace the U.S. carrier’s aging 747s and 767s.

Instead, Delta will take 25 Airbus A350-900s plus 25 Airbus A330-900neos.

The list price of the deal is $14.3 billion. However, according to estimated market pricing data from aircraft valuation firm Avitas, the real value after expected discounts is about $6.2 billion.

News of the Airbus win, first reported Wednesday by aviation analyst Scott Hamilton of Leeham.net, was independently confirmed by the Seattle Times.

Delta wants the A350s starting in 2017 and the A330neos two years later, Hamilton said in an interview. He said a decisive factor in the airline’s choice was that Airbus was able to offer early delivery slots, but Boeing couldn’t.

Boeing has unfilled orders for 850 Dreamliners and plans to ramp up production from the current 10 jets per month to 14 a month by the end of the decade in order to meet demand for earlier deliveries.

Asked about the big expected order in an interview in June, Delta chief executive Richard Anderson said “we really need deliveries around 2017, 2018.”

Representatives of Airbus, Boeing and Delta each declined to comment Wednesday.

Atlanta-based Delta is the most profitable airline in the world and, measured by passengers carried, the second largest after American Airlines.

Its current widebody fleet consists of 126 Boeing jets and just 32 Airbus jets.

Those Airbus planes, all A330s, were inherited from Northwest Airlines when the two carriers merged in 2008. Last year, Delta ordered 10 more A330s.

Delta also inherited from Northwest an order for 18 Boeing 787-8 Dreamliners.

However, faced with the delays and initial problems with that jet, Delta in 2010 pushed out the 787 order by a dozen years, deferring the deliveries beyond 2020.

“I have my doubts that order will ever see the light of day,” said Hamilton. He said it’s deferred so far out that he expects Delta, having for now satisified its widebody needs, will later negotiate a switch with Boeing to swap out the 787 order for 737 MAX narrowbody jets.

The decision now that Delta will update its widebody fleet with the A350 and the new version of the A330 “is a major disappointment for Boeing,” Hamilton wrote.

Conversely, snagging a major U.S. airline in a head-to-head competition between the 787 and its rival A350 is a boost for Airbus.

“It’s huge,” said Hamilton. “Airbus’s widebody penetration into the U.S. market is miniscule.”

American and United today have all-Boeing widebody fleets, though American inherited an Airbus A350 order when it merged with U.S. Air and United also has A350s on order.

The Delta order also confirms the market potential of the A330neo, featuring new fuel-efficient Rolls-Royce engines, which was launched in July at the Farnborough Air Show near London with commitments for 121 aircraft.

The A330neo will likely be flown on transAtlantic routes, including some from Seattle to Europe.

Airbus has 549 firm orders for the A350-900, which is set to be delivered for the first time next month.

This is a long-range plane seating more than 300 passengers, and like the Dreamliner it has a mostly carbon fiber composite airframe. It will likely be used out of Sea-Tac on transPacific routes.

Delta is growing rapidly at Sea-Tac. On Wednesday, it announced new flights to Boise, Idaho; Denver; Sacramento, Calif.; and to Ketchikan and Sitka in Alaska. It trails only Alaska Airlines in the number of flights operated out of the airport.

“As Delta increases its Sea-Tac presence, we’ll see more and more Airbuses flying out of here,” said Hamilton.

In the past year, Delta’s leadership has clashed indirectly with Boeing’s in public discussions over whether Congress should re-authorize the U.S. Export-Import Bank. Boeing supports the bank because it finances jet sales to overseas airlines on attractive terms, and Delta opposes it for the same reason.

However, Delta’s vice president of fleet strategy Nat Pieper said in June that the Ex-Im row wouldn’t affect the widebody decision.

Pieper described how Delta orchestrates the climax to such big jet sales competitions by bringing the Airbus and Boeing sales teams to a “bake-off” in Atlanta, with the sales guys from each manufacturer negotiating terms from separate rooms long into the night.

Delta initiated this widebody jet competition with a formal request for offers in March.

Pieper said the decision always comes down to “the best economics” for the airline. “We make the rules,” said Pieper.

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2025059475_deltaairbusxml.html

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E a Delta deixa claro que quer manter sua postura financeira. Uau !

Dificil dizer que a Boeing perdeu a ordem pois com certeza dentre as 5 empresas aereas top em capacidade financeira para compras no mundo, uma delas sem duvida é a Delta. E ela deve ter "apertado" a Airbus ao limite.

 

Eu vejo como um mix de qualidade técnica, mas principalmente de oferta financeira.

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O mais engraçado é a Delta montando um hub em SEA baseado em widebodies Airbus. Numa cidade que tem um imenso orgulho da Boeing, parece até provocação.

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Essa disputa entre Airbus e Boeing é uma sucessão de toma lá, dá cá.

Airbus fornece pra Delta em resposta à jogada da Boeing com a Emirates que desistiu dos A350 e trocou pelos 777x.

Será assim ad eternum até a vinda de uma terceira fabricante pra chacoalhar essa disputa de comadres.

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Vamos lembrar que a Northwest, hoje fusionada à Delta, sempre foi grande cliente Airbus.

 

A Airbus entra cada vez mais no mercado norte-americano.

 

 

E a Delta deixa claro que quer manter sua postura financeira. Uau !

Dificil dizer que a Boeing perdeu a ordem pois com certeza dentre as 5 empresas aereas top em capacidade financeira para compras no mundo, uma delas sem duvida é a Delta. E ela deve ter "apertado" a Airbus ao limite.

 

Eu vejo como um mix de qualidade técnica, mas principalmente de oferta financeira.

 

Sim LipeGIG, a Boeing perdeu a ordem e deve ter sido um duro golpe! Não vejo como relativizar isso, "eles iam querer muito desconto, então melhor não vender pra eles!". Não, isso não existe!

 

Qualquer grande encomenda vem com aperto na proposta. E os fabricantes têm que ter cacife pra absorver isso. Acredito que ambas devem ter.

 

Assim, acho que o aspecto técnico deve ter pesado muito sim, embora para muitos "conservadores" há aquele velho mito de que "se escolheu Boeing é porque é bom; se foi Airbus é porque teve enorme desconto", o que é uma gigantesca besteira!

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Posted · Hidden by A345_Leadership, November 20, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by A345_Leadership, November 20, 2014 - No reason given

De acordo com o artigo, o fator decisivo foi :

He said a decisive factor in the airlines choice was that Airbus was able to offer early delivery slots, but Boeing couldnt.

 

E não o aspecto técnico como disse erroneamente o caravelle...

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Posted · Hidden by A345_Leadership, November 20, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by A345_Leadership, November 20, 2014 - No reason given

L1011Tristar, apesar de homenagear essa aeronave fantástica, tu és um grande BABACA!!!

 

Cada postagem que faço elogiando a Airbus, tu contra-atacas, parece que me persegue, fica controlando o que posto. Trabalhas pra "inteligência" da Boeing?

 

Bom, "fator decisivo" não exclui a qualidade técnica, que citei como fator que pesou bastante.

 

Ah, esqueci... Airbus é um lixo, é vídeo-game, uma grande porcaria onde o computador é quem manda, e só os "tanques" da Boeing que prestam...

 

Se fosse ruim como tu deves pensar, a Delta e mais centenas de outras grandes empresas não comprariam!

 

Desculpem o desabafo...

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Posted · Hidden by A345_Leadership, November 20, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by A345_Leadership, November 20, 2014 - No reason given

Pessoal, estou sendo atacado gratuitamente pelo usuário caravelle...

Apenas estou me atendo aos fatos expostos no artigo, comentado de forma imparcial, e esse usuário alem de querer começar uma discussão AvsB , me ataca e me ofende, moderadores, tomem uma atitude contra esse usuário!

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